SportsCarFrenzy.com

[pookie]

So the first question is obvious, I’m looking for an AWD car, any recommendations?

Hang with me and let me try and explain what is going on in my crazy brain. I am getting a new DD and not really sure what I want. And HOLY SMOKES this turned out way longer than I thought it would. I'll put the cliff notes version in bold for the skimmers.

A little about me:
-5’11, 195, (this will be relevant later)
-Married
-One kid (for now) so only one car seat
-Going to be getting a dog for the family this spring, most likely a yellow lab, (I swear this is relevant)
-Travel for work is about 40ish miles a day
-5-10 miles in the city and about 30ish on the interstate
-I can also take the windy backroads like I did this morning in the 911
-We travel to the mountains of NC throughout the year and it is about a 3.5 hour trip one way. This would definitely be the winter option for us to take.
-I’m also planning to get a Thule/Yakima roof coffin to carry additional stuff
-When we travel for family it is on much longer trips, the shortest is about 6 hours one way, with some about 10 hours down to Florida.
-I work 10 hour days, so my hobbies are pretty much doing anything with my family on the weekends. I do like to fish and hunt when I can, but this year that hasn’t been at all. I would like to be able to fit a fishing pole in the car with me.

What I am looking for:
-Budget wise between $12-14k
-99.9% sold on having a manual transmission
-95% sold on having AWD
-50/50 on sedan vs. wagon
-Reliability is very big right now as I don’t have time to do too many in depth projects. Maintenance is one thing. But I don’t want to be fixing something all the time.
-As far as features I’d like power windows, door locks, maybe keyless. I’d probably like leather over cloth but not a deal breaker. I’m not big fan of sunroofs.
-I do plan on having a PPI done on most cars I am looking at.

What I plan to use the car for:
-40ish miles a day for work, mix of city interstate.
-trips to the mtns during the year and especially during the winter
-long family road trips
-participate in 4-5 SCCA local autocross events maybe more
-participate in 2-3 SCCA somewhat local rallycross events (these are the ones down in Tullahoma, and the only ones I have seen around)
-I should mention for both of the SCCA events I just want to go drive. I don’t care about being the fastest guy out there. I just want to be able to go have fun in a safe environment, and hopefully teach my kid the right way to drive fast.

I should preface that my comparison car for most of my observations is my wife’s Mazda 3. It is the wagon and is a fabulous car, seriously, I really like this car. It is a manual, fits all our junk, and handles great. I have two complaints with the car. First is that it feels underpowered. It doesn’t have that quick feeling that I’m looking for. I don’t need to go 100+ MPH but the regular Mazda 3 doesn’t feel perky. Now if Mazda made a Speed3 with AWD there wouldn’t be a reason for this post as I would already be shopping for one. Second, this is where my height comes in to play, my right knee hits the center console when I drive the Mazda. It is not major on short drives, but on longer road trips it is annoying.

Manual vs. auto-
Not really much of a debate here. I like manual transmissions, I like being able to select what gear I am in, I like having that control. I don’t like computers telling me when to shift or shifting for me. With that said the only reason it’s not at 100% is because I left the Mercedes 4matic on the list. I have not seen one of those in a regular manual transmission. The Mercedes is auto but for the same price as a WRX I can get a lower mileage MB with more creature comforts. Again none of that is a deal breaker but it is interesting to note.

Sedan vs. Wagon debate-
One issue I’m facing is that I like both sedans and wagons but I go back and forth daily on what vehicle would suit our needs better. I really like the usefulness of the wagon but I wonder if we couldn’t get along with a sedan. Aesthetics wise I think all the sedan versions of the cars I am looking at just look cleaner and smoother. And for the majority of trips it would just be me driving to and from work and a wagon seems over kill.
But for the trips we take to the mtns or to visit family the wagon seems like a much more viable option. A wagon would not only give us more space to haul stuff, but we are that family that treats the dog as a fellow member. So, that that now relevant yellow lab mentioned earlier would be contained in the back and not in the back seat with the kiddo.
As far as hauling junk, I am already planning to get the roof coffin for extra junk we already have so that’s not really an arguing point. I also have a small utility trailer for those times when I need to get really bulky stuff for house projects.

Normally aspirated (NA) vs. turbo debate-
I’ve never owned a turbo car. I don’t know a lot about turbo cars. I know they require extra maintenance. I know they used forced induction to create more power than NA cars.
When I initially started looking gas mileage was a concern. I’m coming from a Jeep that gets about 14 city and 18 hwy, so anything is an improvement. But I wasn’t sure if the cost of premium would be that much different than the cost of regular. In my rudimentary math I figured if I drive 10K miles a year having a turbo’d car cost about $300-400 more at the most for premium over regular. I’m willing to pay that if the turbo is the car I’d rather have. So gas isn’t an issue.
One thing that is an issue to me is the maintenance history on many of the turbo cars I am looking at. While Subarus seem pretty bulletproof I know that if they WRX is not properly maintained it could lead to problems, same with the Mazda Speed 6. I haven’t found any that have a full and complete service history. I have found lots that have records of the big services like 60k mile but not on the smaller stuff. So should not having records from a turbo car be a concern? Should high mileage turbo cars be a concern? Are there additional things that I would need to check with a turbo car?
Additionally, I see a lot of the WRX’s that have aftermarket modifications. As I age, I’m learning that when I buy a car I want the cleanest most stock example I can find. But part of me still wonders what has been done to the car and then taken off. Maybe it’s just coming from the Jeep world but guys will put big lifts and tires on a Jeep and then right before they sell it return it back to stock. I assume the same thing happens with turbo cars.
As far as power differences, the standard Impreza makes about 170 while the WRX makes 227 or 250 depending on year. I know I will notice the power increase, but is it smooth power or is it a rush of power once you get past a certain RPM?

AWD vs. RWD or FWD
Again I’ve never had an AWD car. But as I mentioned this will be going to the mountains in the winter. And I’d rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it, if you know what I mean.
I think this debate only comes in when looking at the SCCA events. RWD and FWD may be better on the autocross courses. But I know that AWD is first on the rallycross events with FWD in second.
So this should probably read, is there a reason not to get AWD?

Lastly here are the cars I can think of that have AWD in some form. Most are 4cyls with the exception of the MB. Any real world experience on the following would be great.
Here is the list of cars that I am currently considering:
-Subaru Impreza wagon
-Subaru WRX
-Subaru Legacy
-Subaru Legacy GT (has WRX motor)
-Subaru Outback GT (has WRX motor)
-Mazda Speed6
-Mercedes C class 4-matic- kinda on the fence about these since they don’t have a manual transmission, but for the same price as the WRX you get a lot more coosh in one of these.

Here’s a list of what I have ruled out:
-Audi quattros- all of them. From my readings on this board alone I know to stay away from Audi.
-BMW- x’s- all the ones in my price range have crazy high miles
-Infiniti G35 sedan and coupe- I like the idea of naturally aspirated 300 HP but they also have really high miles in my price range.
-Sabburu- I like the idea but the look just doesn’t do it for me. Exterior or interior. I do like that they have the WRX motor and AWD system but styling just seems off to me.

I think my wife is going to shoot me if I bring up some of these topics again. So just looking for some input from others who share my car sickness.

[Überschnell]

I am unsure if you can go wrong with a Subaru for what you're wanting, turbo or otherwise. If you don't go modifying, there really isn't extra maintenance. Find a bone-stock, lower-miles example that's been taken care of, and continue to take care of it. I like the Legacy GT, but they're all basically the same from what I've read.

Basically all of the stipulations for your DD mean that this car is going to suck at autocross.

Also, C-class 4matic, wtf? You'd be better off with an iX than one of those. Hell, come to think of it, an e30 iX is the perfect solution.

[Sunset350ZR]

If you like the Mazda 3 I definitely go with the WRX wagon. Definitely be able to fil all the criteria above.

[Battlewagon]

http://www.topbb.com/sportscarfrenzy/viewtopic.php?t=3156&mforum=sportscarfrenzy
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[KnoxMSP]

The Speed6 would not do well for dog duty. Otherwise it fits the bill pretty well for you.

I just happen to have one for sale too.
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[pookie]

KnoxMSP I sent you a PM

Battlewagon-I saw your ad. I was going to start out with I'm not interested in the Battlewagon but we haven't met so I didn't want to be offend you before we had a chance to meet. That is by far one of the best for sale ads I have seen.

Uberschnell- I know but I'll be a novice for this upcoming season. I'm in my 30's so my hopes of being a WRC driver are fading fast. Like I said I don't care if am DFL every weekend. I just want to have fun.

My only fear with the WRX wagon is that it will be to small. But we'll see.

[Überschnell]

Yeah, but a bulky AWD wagon on all-seasons isn't going to be anything close to "fun." I think the Legacy GT is a nice compromise.

Also consider that depending on where you want to go in the winter, that a RWD car with a set of steelies and snow tires is very capable. A lot of us go across the Dragon when it's salty in the middle of winter, and we're running summer tires. A lot of things are relative.

The Battlewagon is never actually for sale.

[Battlewagon]

[pookie]

Battlewagon-what year Outback is the has the H6. I think I would prefer the flat 6 over the turbo'd 4.

I was advised to stay away from 04 model years because they had a head gasket issue? Ever heard of that?

Lastly I like the Outback XT but all the ones I have seen are north of 100K miles. Not necessarily a deal breaker but something to consider.

And I really like the Legacy GT but that goes back the wagon vs sedan debate.

[Battlewagon]

In 2004, there was no turbo Legacy/Outback so they all were SOHC Phase II EJ25s: not a real headgasket leaker. It's the phase I DOHC EJ25 found the first generation Outbacks that are a headgasket mess. After that, Subaru did okay with the headgaskets so unless they've been absolutely abused (like all cars), you shouldn't worry.

The H6 was offered from 2000 until 2009 but got the horsepower power boost when the BL/BP generations appeared in 2005. 05s-09s would be what you'd want to look for.

Here I found you one. It's in Nashville.

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/ctd/2771851471.html
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